Welcome to the workshop!
By December 1st, our dogs will have amazing sit/stand/down positions in Heel and Side, beautiful sits/stands in Front, and they will be doing perfect finishes as well. In each of our other workshops, we did some goal setting. I found that by setting goals and devoting just a few minutes each day to the work made a big difference for me and my dogs.
So let's list the things we want to cover in the workshop and then set goals for our teams on each item. Some goals we will attain during this workshop; some we will get later. When goal setting be detailed about the exact goal you want. "I want a beautiful front" is not exact - it is subjective. "I want my dog to stand facing me, watching me, with her head no farther than my forearm if I reach out over her, and her butt in line with her shoulders which are in line with my hips" is much more exact.
For finishes, you may want to decide how close the dog needs to be to your leg at the end, where his/her shoulder is in relation to your leg at the end, and the alignment of his/her body in relation to the direction you are facing. Head up? head forward, head wherever the dog chooses? How fast a finish? And so on....
As we go through this list, think of the criteria that you will select for your goals for each item. And, please let me know what I forgot to add to the list!
Fronts - As in a Call Front From a recall (as in CRO as well as some other venues) From a sit Heel Position (as in AKC Advanced)
Finishes - Loop (If you are not familiar with CRO, a Loop finish is the same as the Left finish in other venues where the dog works just on the left side of the handler. In CRO, in the Performance Division, the dog works on both sides of the handler. A Loop finish can be to the left or the right depending on whether the end position is Heel or Side). Circle (A Circle finish has the dog going around the handler to finish. In other venues, it is called a Right finish, b/c the dog is always ending in Heel position, never in Side.)
Position changes at Heel and Side - Sit Down Stand
We will start working on these items in the order they are listed above, unless someone has a strong objection and a better idea! Try to set a goal for your Call Front, even if you need more time to set goals for the rest of the list. My goal for Dusty and Misty is to have them remain lined up directly in front of me on the Long Call Front exercises (Levels III, IV, and V). This would be useful in freestyle, as well. On one or more of my Level III runs, they were not centered on my center for the Long Call Fronts. It may be my cueing that was the problem, and we will discuss cueing as that is very often the key to fixing problems. For typical Call Fronts, I would like my dogs to be lined up on my center without butts angled off-center. Again, cueing may be involved --Ah! It is always the handler's fault! :)
What goals can you set for the workshop in general and for each behavior specifically? Sharing goals is a good way to help refine them in our own minds as well as inspire others.
Jude
Let's Get Started
So, if everyone has their goals for a plain old Call Front, let's start
working on those.
There are several types (am I forgetting anything?)
1. Call Front from moving forward in Heel/Side
2. Call Front as in a recall (in CRO and other venues) and also the CRO
Long Call Front exercises
3. Call Front from stationary Heel/Side (not a CRO exercise but appears in
other venues)
4. Call Front from a single weave (Level III CRO exercises; similar to
calling front from stationary Heel/Side)
Let's start with the easiest, a Call Front from moving forward in Heel/Side.
I say it is the easiest, because in all venues we can move back a few steps
to aid the dog in lining up. (YES, you can do this in AKC Advanced and
Excellent on the Novice level Call Front signs.)
If you'd like to do a few of these with your dogs and make some notes, see
where you think you need work in order to reach your goals. Try them in a
narrow space (like a hallway) and also in an open space (the driveway?).
Try them moving back a few steps and moving back only a single step. How
about not moving back at all?
In class, I encourage the handlers to (quickly, not slowly) move back a few
steps for several reasons. One: it helps the dog line up more easily b/c
the dog has more forward steps once s/he turns around towards the handler
and the butt gets straighter naturally. Two: it is fun for the dog to chase
the handler a few steps, engaging prey drive which is a rare opportunity on
a rally course. Three: it increases attention b/c there is a sudden change
of direction and movement in that new direction towards the handler plus the
opportunity for face-to-face eye contact and two way attention. Four: by
having this bit of fun on the course you are reinforcing the rally game and
enhancing your relationship with the dog.
Let's report back tomorrow (Saturday). If anyone gets some video, please
share!
Jude
Finding Lily's Baseline
This morning we tested our "baseline" moving fronts and finishes on my tile floor to get an accurate appraisal of alignment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeDqXA3X9dM
I was surprised to see that Lily's finish to the right side is stronger than her finish to heel position. The tiles are 13X13. She manages to sit within the tile, but her spine is not always in alignment with mine. Good enough, certainly, for real life.....but how precise must she be for CRO?
Also, several times I waited for her to correct her heel position. How is waiting treated in competition? Must the finish be performed in one fluid motion?
I was trying to find Lily's alignment baseline first. Next I will video her proximity to me in the front position. What is the desired position? Toe to toe? How much leeway is acceptable? IOW, the range.
It's good to review these behaviors from time to time, isn't it? We use these behaviors all the time in the course of living, but rarely stop to evaluate.
Lynn
Finding Lily's Baseline
This morning we tested our "baseline" moving fronts and finishes on my tile floor to get an accurate appraisal of alignment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeDqXA3X9dM
I was surprised to see that Lily's finish to the right side is stronger than her finish to heel position. The tiles are 13X13. She manages to sit within the tile, but her spine is not always in alignment with mine. Good enough, certainly, for real life.....but how precise must she be for CRO?
Also, several times I waited for her to correct her heel position. How is waiting treated in competition? Must the finish be performed in one fluid motion?
I was trying to find Lily's alignment baseline first. Next I will video her proximity to me in the front position. What is the desired position? Toe to toe? How much leeway is acceptable? IOW, the range.
It's good to review these behaviors from time to time, isn't it? We use these behaviors all the time in the course of living, but rarely stop to evaluate.
Lynn
Human/Human Exercise
I went to a seminar last year where we did a couple of exercises that I found very interesting. Both exercises use two humans, no dogs. For both, one human plays the human doing a recall, and the other plays the dog doing a recall to front.
First exercise: Human calls "dog-human" to front, as in an obedience recall. The first time we did this exercise, I was the human. Seemed pretty straightforward. Then we switched places, and I played the "dog-human". I don't consider myself either a fearful or space-sensitive human, but this was hard. It was hard to come all the way in, and it was hard to stay there, inches away from another person.
Second exercise: Human calls "dog-human" to front. As soon as the dog-human arrives, the human verbally marked it, and immediately backed up 4 or 5 feet, then called again, again marking & backing up. We repeated this process 5 or 6 times. When I played the dog in this exercise, the difference was dramatic. It got dramatically easier to come into position very quickly. In fact, in just a few repetitions, I felt "drawn" to the other person (total stranger), and the "stay" part of the exercise until I was called to front became the difficult part. As in any dog-training exercise, timing is important. As soon as the "dog-human" arrives in the correct spot, the human should immediately mark & release the pressure by backing up to do the next repetition.
The sensations were very odd. If you can find a spare human to do this exercise with you, I highly recommend it. It gave me a whole new perspective on my dog's recall.
Diane S.
PVC Platforms
I'm new to both cyber rally and posting. Mostly I lurk. Loving all the contributions to the workshop so far.
Elli and I have been working on her fronts for quite some time and struggled with multiple methods. I found that the most success came from using platforms with her. However, I always ran into problems because the platform wasn't custom sized and she was able to squeak by with some very crooked sits. I also ran into issues when I tried to generalize to new environments. She sought out the platform when we'd come within 4 feet of it, choosing to go over to it, sit on it, 2 on-2 off on it or whatever instead of staying in heel position.
Anyway. At a KPA reunion, Lynn Martin, KPA-CTP introduced the group to PVC custom sized platforms (what I'm using in the video). My experience with them has been awesome. They are SO EASY to generalize because the dog will have been sitting on the plain ground the entire time. All that is required is some PVC pipe and some PVC elbows.
I began working with the platform as I would any other -- shaping her into the box and eventually adding myself into the picture. She sits close and tight. I also worked something like Sue Ailsby's method to teach Elli to find front.
The following video shows us sequencing outdoors.
I went to a seminar last year where we did a couple of exercises that I found very interesting. Both exercises use two humans, no dogs. For both, one human plays the human doing a recall, and the other plays the dog doing a recall to front.
First exercise: Human calls "dog-human" to front, as in an obedience recall. The first time we did this exercise, I was the human. Seemed pretty straightforward. Then we switched places, and I played the "dog-human". I don't consider myself either a fearful or space-sensitive human, but this was hard. It was hard to come all the way in, and it was hard to stay there, inches away from another person.
Second exercise: Human calls "dog-human" to front. As soon as the dog-human arrives, the human verbally marked it, and immediately backed up 4 or 5 feet, then called again, again marking & backing up. We repeated this process 5 or 6 times. When I played the dog in this exercise, the difference was dramatic. It got dramatically easier to come into position very quickly. In fact, in just a few repetitions, I felt "drawn" to the other person (total stranger), and the "stay" part of the exercise until I was called to front became the difficult part. As in any dog-training exercise, timing is important. As soon as the "dog-human" arrives in the correct spot, the human should immediately mark & release the pressure by backing up to do the next repetition.
The sensations were very odd. If you can find a spare human to do this exercise with you, I highly recommend it. It gave me a whole new perspective on my dog's recall.
Diane S.
PVC Platforms
I'm new to both cyber rally and posting. Mostly I lurk. Loving all the contributions to the workshop so far.
Elli and I have been working on her fronts for quite some time and struggled with multiple methods. I found that the most success came from using platforms with her. However, I always ran into problems because the platform wasn't custom sized and she was able to squeak by with some very crooked sits. I also ran into issues when I tried to generalize to new environments. She sought out the platform when we'd come within 4 feet of it, choosing to go over to it, sit on it, 2 on-2 off on it or whatever instead of staying in heel position.
Anyway. At a KPA reunion, Lynn Martin, KPA-CTP introduced the group to PVC custom sized platforms (what I'm using in the video). My experience with them has been awesome. They are SO EASY to generalize because the dog will have been sitting on the plain ground the entire time. All that is required is some PVC pipe and some PVC elbows.
I began working with the platform as I would any other -- shaping her into the box and eventually adding myself into the picture. She sits close and tight. I also worked something like Sue Ailsby's method to teach Elli to find front.
The following video shows us sequencing outdoors.
We also drill position changes: heel to front, several times. Her swing into heel position was also taught using a platform (upside down bowl). Elli and I worked on this stuff for several weeks inside -- this is the second time we've practiced outdoors; it is the first time the "platform" has been outdoors with us, though, because I knew we'd run into a few issues.
Towards the end, she gets really proficient at finding Front through sequences. I am so proud of her!!
I found that treating in position was pretty important to Elli. So I spit sometimes and other times I dole from my hand. Which hand will dole the food is always random to her, thus, keeping her straight (borrowed from Patty Ruzzo's Classics of Training DVD).
Elli's platformbox is custom sized to her body when she sits. If you plan to make one, measure your dog's ideal sitting position. Remember that the PVC elbows (in 3/4") add approx 2in each way to every corner. I started Elli at the exact size platformbox you see in the video because I wasn't willing to give any more click/treats for crooked or misaligned fronts than I already had in the past with other methods. I would imagine that you could shape the behavior via the size of the platformbox, but Elli took to it fine because it caused her to self-correct while she was learning.
Elli's a shaping pro, so I did shape her into the platformbox. I also shaped myself from a sitting-on-the-couch position to standing (as I would for an actual front).
I use it for both fronts and for stops/halts at heel. I also use it for distance-work, as she already has a nice straight sit in it. I have a second platformbox, that fits her measurements when she is in a sphinx-down or stand. With that platformbox, I am able to drill sit/down/stand at a distance without her ever ending up crooked. I do recommend also getting some non-slip material to duct-tape onto the bottoms of the elbows if you have a slippery (I have hardwood) floor. PVC doesn't stay put well on slippery floors. Outdoors, zero issues.
I've found that it really helps me see when she's not straight. And I've also found that it helped Elli find the "sweet spot" really easily because the PVC piping isn't exactly comfortable for her to sit on/straddle (self-corrections).
Lia
Roll Back Sit vs Tuck In Sit
What say you, Jude and Lois? Do you accept either?
Oh my goodness, yes! Butt on the ground is a sit no matter which footwork the dog uses.
I am the queen of "good enough" and although I would love to have the time, talent, and patience to teach behaviors to perfection it is not realistic for me at this time in my life.
As I've said before, we have certainly seen some perfect CRO runs. But that is definitely not the standard to qualify!
Jude
Single Weave to Front
Here is the last Call Front on our list.
In Level III, there are several exercises that start with Stop. Single Weave to Front. In the video I tried this three ways, each from a Stop (and I prefer my dogs to stand rather than sit). The demo is from a stop in Heel position. Dusty is always going around my right leg to find Front position. For Side, use the opposite legs.
1. Move R leg out to the side and cue the weave.
2. Move R leg forward and cue the weave.
3. Move L leg back and cue the weave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9jdRcaGEs
I think #1 is most difficult because the dog is coming at a 90 degree angle (from the 3 or 4 on a clock) to find Front. #2 and 3 have the dog moving forward to do the weave and then curving around the R leg so he is at a better angle to find Front (coming from between 12 and 2). Dusty is very flexible and doesn't bother to straighten up (need more chute work!), but he is in a better position when I move him father forward before he turns towards me.
Jude
Finishes
Let's start working on our finishes. Here are the types (what have I forgotten??):
Finish Forwards:
1. Finish Loop (Left if in Heel position)
2. Finish Circle (Right if in Heel position)
3. Single Weave Finish (Level II exercises 27 and 29) OPTIONAL Forwards for CRO – required for other venues as noted:
4. Call to Heel/Side while handler has moved forward and is facing away from dog (Level I exercises 37-39, Level V exercises 1-3, AKC Advanced two call to heel exercises and other venues)
5. Call to Heel from a recall (Level III exercise 6 and 16, Level IV exercise 7, Level V exercise 7, AKC Excellent Send to Jump exercise)
Finish Waits (Halt):
1. Finish Loop (Left if in Heel position)
2. Finish Circle (Right if in Heel position)
3. Single Weave Finish (Level II exercises 26 and 28) OPTIONAL Waits for CRO – required for other venues as noted:
4. Call to Heel/Side while handler has moved forward and is facing away from dog (Level I exercises 37-39, Level V exercises 1-3, AKC Excellent call to heel exercise and other venues)
5. Call to Heel from a recall (Level III exercise 6 and 16, Level IV exercise 7, Level V exercise 7, AKC Excellent Send to Jump exercise)
We can also group these as Loop (Left), Circle (Right), Weave, and distance with the facing away from the dog .
For discussion purposes, I think these groupings are more manageable. So let's start with Loop (Left) finishes. It would be good to see how your dogs do with these and make some notes. Then see how far you progress as your work on them.
Jude
Handler Foot Movement
Hi Lynn, If you look in the rules and regulations under "NQ" , Number 15 is
Linda
Elli's platformbox is custom sized to her body when she sits. If you plan to make one, measure your dog's ideal sitting position. Remember that the PVC elbows (in 3/4") add approx 2in each way to every corner. I started Elli at the exact size platformbox you see in the video because I wasn't willing to give any more click/treats for crooked or misaligned fronts than I already had in the past with other methods. I would imagine that you could shape the behavior via the size of the platformbox, but Elli took to it fine because it caused her to self-correct while she was learning.
Elli's a shaping pro, so I did shape her into the platformbox. I also shaped myself from a sitting-on-the-couch position to standing (as I would for an actual front).
I use it for both fronts and for stops/halts at heel. I also use it for distance-work, as she already has a nice straight sit in it. I have a second platformbox, that fits her measurements when she is in a sphinx-down or stand. With that platformbox, I am able to drill sit/down/stand at a distance without her ever ending up crooked. I do recommend also getting some non-slip material to duct-tape onto the bottoms of the elbows if you have a slippery (I have hardwood) floor. PVC doesn't stay put well on slippery floors. Outdoors, zero issues.
I've found that it really helps me see when she's not straight. And I've also found that it helped Elli find the "sweet spot" really easily because the PVC piping isn't exactly comfortable for her to sit on/straddle (self-corrections).
Lia
Roll Back Sit vs Tuck In Sit
What say you, Jude and Lois? Do you accept either?
Oh my goodness, yes! Butt on the ground is a sit no matter which footwork the dog uses.
I am the queen of "good enough" and although I would love to have the time, talent, and patience to teach behaviors to perfection it is not realistic for me at this time in my life.
As I've said before, we have certainly seen some perfect CRO runs. But that is definitely not the standard to qualify!
Jude
Single Weave to Front
Here is the last Call Front on our list.
In Level III, there are several exercises that start with Stop. Single Weave to Front. In the video I tried this three ways, each from a Stop (and I prefer my dogs to stand rather than sit). The demo is from a stop in Heel position. Dusty is always going around my right leg to find Front position. For Side, use the opposite legs.
1. Move R leg out to the side and cue the weave.
2. Move R leg forward and cue the weave.
3. Move L leg back and cue the weave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9jdRcaGEs
I think #1 is most difficult because the dog is coming at a 90 degree angle (from the 3 or 4 on a clock) to find Front. #2 and 3 have the dog moving forward to do the weave and then curving around the R leg so he is at a better angle to find Front (coming from between 12 and 2). Dusty is very flexible and doesn't bother to straighten up (need more chute work!), but he is in a better position when I move him father forward before he turns towards me.
Jude
Finishes
Let's start working on our finishes. Here are the types (what have I forgotten??):
Finish Forwards:
1. Finish Loop (Left if in Heel position)
2. Finish Circle (Right if in Heel position)
3. Single Weave Finish (Level II exercises 27 and 29) OPTIONAL Forwards for CRO – required for other venues as noted:
4. Call to Heel/Side while handler has moved forward and is facing away from dog (Level I exercises 37-39, Level V exercises 1-3, AKC Advanced two call to heel exercises and other venues)
5. Call to Heel from a recall (Level III exercise 6 and 16, Level IV exercise 7, Level V exercise 7, AKC Excellent Send to Jump exercise)
Finish Waits (Halt):
1. Finish Loop (Left if in Heel position)
2. Finish Circle (Right if in Heel position)
3. Single Weave Finish (Level II exercises 26 and 28) OPTIONAL Waits for CRO – required for other venues as noted:
4. Call to Heel/Side while handler has moved forward and is facing away from dog (Level I exercises 37-39, Level V exercises 1-3, AKC Excellent call to heel exercise and other venues)
5. Call to Heel from a recall (Level III exercise 6 and 16, Level IV exercise 7, Level V exercise 7, AKC Excellent Send to Jump exercise)
We can also group these as Loop (Left), Circle (Right), Weave, and distance with the facing away from the dog .
For discussion purposes, I think these groupings are more manageable. So let's start with Loop (Left) finishes. It would be good to see how your dogs do with these and make some notes. Then see how far you progress as your work on them.
Jude
Handler Foot Movement
Hi Lynn, If you look in the rules and regulations under "NQ" , Number 15 is
15. Handler moving feet after the dog is in Front position during a "...Finish. Wait." exercise on Levels III, IV, or V courses.As I have learned (and experienced with a couple of NQs ), from Level III on, the handler MUST NOT MOVE His/her feet after the dog comes to front. In other words, the finish must be performed by the dog without the handler moving that leg backward.
Linda
If your dog swings into the finish, does that make it harder when you have a Finish Forward station?
The momentum is with the rear end moving right (or left into Side) and the front feet are planted. Looping the finish (dog goes behind and moves forward into Heel/Side) seems much easier for the dog to do a Finish Forward. Has anyone taught the two separate types of finish to the left (for Heel)?
Obviously, swinging into Heel and moving forward is not a problem for Jessie -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOEdu_utok
How about for a much larger, less agile dog?
How about for a much larger, less agile dog?
Jude
Jude, is this what you had in mind?
Lynn, that is a great demo. Obviously not a problem for Lily to swing in and move forward immediately. I have some enormous dogs in class (a Leonberger, an Irish Wolfhound, several Borzoi) and I can't imagine them doing this with ease!
People have different names for loop/left finishes. Some people call all of them a swing finish. Some call a swing a flip and some call a jump-into-position a flip. One of the videos (Donna and Jessie, I think) calls one a U-turn style and the pivot style a swing. Regardless, I think all venues (certainly CRO) allows all these methods. Loop finish is descriptive of the dogs path on a U-turn style finish; but swinging in or jumping in is also fine.
Jude
Options
Lynn wrote: So the dog has several options. And the handler must not move his/her feet backwards. Is that correct? Anything else involved in this behavior that hasn't yet been mentioned? Whew!
In Levels I and II, the step back is not a problem other than it becoming a bad habit. If someone does it, Lois and I will always mention to the handler that it has to be faded by Level III. And in other venues, why would you want to lose points while maintaining that crutch?
If we think about it, there are a lot of mini behaviors in the loop/left finish (and the right/circle): moving only when the handler cues it, discriminating between left and right sides of the handler (cue discrimination), discriminating between military/swing/flip cues if the team has more than one way of doing the left/loop finish, moving far enough back in the military finish to come up straight, keeping front feet in place to pivot into a swing finish in the correct ending position, and being accurate on the flip to get into the correct position upon landing, and trying to find proper Heel position even if your handler is twisted around, bent over, or whatever!!
Any way to do it is correct, as long as the dog moves to the correct side of the handler (left for Heel, right for Side) to start and ends in the correct position (Heel/Side).
Jude
Options
Lynn wrote: So the dog has several options. And the handler must not move his/her feet backwards. Is that correct? Anything else involved in this behavior that hasn't yet been mentioned? Whew!
In Levels I and II, the step back is not a problem other than it becoming a bad habit. If someone does it, Lois and I will always mention to the handler that it has to be faded by Level III. And in other venues, why would you want to lose points while maintaining that crutch?
If we think about it, there are a lot of mini behaviors in the loop/left finish (and the right/circle): moving only when the handler cues it, discriminating between left and right sides of the handler (cue discrimination), discriminating between military/swing/flip cues if the team has more than one way of doing the left/loop finish, moving far enough back in the military finish to come up straight, keeping front feet in place to pivot into a swing finish in the correct ending position, and being accurate on the flip to get into the correct position upon landing, and trying to find proper Heel position even if your handler is twisted around, bent over, or whatever!!
Any way to do it is correct, as long as the dog moves to the correct side of the handler (left for Heel, right for Side) to start and ends in the correct position (Heel/Side).
Jude
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